I don't like the fact that I couldn't be gay and be a witness. I had some wonderful boyfriends and wish that I could have dated them while being a witness. I do believe that some things can be brought more out in the open and not everything has to be done in just letters to BOEs but can be brought to the attention of everyone in a congregation. I don't like the way that the broadcast has "Christian Rock" at the end of their broadcasts. Thos are just to name a few of the things.
Richard Oliver
JoinedPosts by Richard Oliver
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Outlaw. Please explain why you call me an apologist?
Would you call a person on a jury who chooses not to find someone guilty, if they need more proof and facts than were given. I am not saying I should judge people, but I do require proof of things. Accusations and stories are not proof.
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27
More congregations? One of the strategies they used to inflate the numbers in my city.
by Tempest in a Teacup ini looked at the 2017 yearbook figures this morning, and it reminded me of something which happened in my former congregation 2 years ago.
it was a tiny foreign language congregation with at most 25-30 publishers.
comes and splits a 30 member congregation into....three.
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Richard Oliver
Dreamerdude. The reason why I ask for language and general location is because it is very easy to confirm if it is an actual congregation or not by just going onto their website and putting in the language and the area and if that congregation comes up with nothing attached to it such as "other meetings held in" then that is confirmation that it is a full fledge congregation, but if it doesn't and it comes up with that statement then most likely it is a group.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Technically 1 hour from Warwick to the tip of the Bronx which starts NYC. I know from Patterson down to the bottom of Westchester was smooth sailing up until you hit the Bronx.
And sorry ctrwtf, I didn't say from Warwick to Brooklyn was an hour and a half, but rereading it that was the intention that could have been inferred from the point.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Writing has never been one of my skills. I am able to express myself much better verbally. When I write my thoughts bounce all over the place because well that is just how I think when I am not actively thinking about the matter. For me when I speak I much more actively think about a subject than I can do when i have time to write.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
I think everyone here is under the impression that I am a Watchtower Sympathizer, I am not. I just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when I get so motivated to make a comment. I have read posts here, listened to Six Screens and read JWSurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.
There are legitimate things that people on here and former JWs have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
We have seen this so much even in mainstream media and other outlets, where people will pass off their opinion as fact and because the audience already wants to hear that they take it as proof. We saw that recently with the pizza gate issue, where a fake news story caused someone to shoot up a restaurant because he thought the story was real. A lot of people have dissected this and said that the reason that man was so skeptical to believing that story was true was, because he wanted it to be true.
And just as many people here will accuse Witnesses of just believing what Watchtower tells them is because they want it to be true, same thing that I have seen here and on other sites. Six Screens did a whole story that Watchtower spent 30+ million dollars on blimps so that they could get GB members from Warwick to Brooklyn fast. Without exception people on there believed it whole heartedly because they want to believe it is true no matter what. Lets take away the fact that Warwick to the city even by car is only 1 hour 15 minutes and they did not take into account that there is nowhere to park a blimp anywhere in NYC, and even if they were to park it at JFK, it would take an hour to get from Queens to Brooklyn. But it is what they wanted to believe that Watchtower is this evil organization that has spent millions of dollars on this luxury.
If you have a dispute with something that I said then present actual facts with it. I presented facts here that there are states that bar ministers from reporting child abuse, so I was waiting for one person to disprove it by actual facts. I don't need more sentiment in my life, I like pure facts.
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27
More congregations? One of the strategies they used to inflate the numbers in my city.
by Tempest in a Teacup ini looked at the 2017 yearbook figures this morning, and it reminded me of something which happened in my former congregation 2 years ago.
it was a tiny foreign language congregation with at most 25-30 publishers.
comes and splits a 30 member congregation into....three.
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Richard Oliver
Host congregations and language groups do not have to have their meetings together. In fact as a language group develops they will first hold different meetings or parts of meetings separately. They are only counted as a different congregation when they receive a unique congregation number. The congregation number is what differentiates formed congregations. If a congregation is dissolved that dissolved congregation is no longer part of the count of overall numbers of congregations.
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39
...It Belongs to the Society
by Lostandfound inway back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.
my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.
my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.
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Richard Oliver
What facts have I brought up that I have asked Outlaw that is not relevant? It may not be relevant to the exact scenario that the OP set out but I certainly believe that he did not post it so that people would comment in the vacuum of that exclusive scenario, but that of a large issue of who owns kingdom halls and who should have control over them.
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39
...It Belongs to the Society
by Lostandfound inway back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.
my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.
my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.
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Richard Oliver
Grreat Teacher. You automatically think that someone is a troll if they disagree with you. I am looking for actual facts. Not what people believe is the cause of an action.
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39
...It Belongs to the Society
by Lostandfound inway back in the 70s around the time when the elders arrangement was new i recall a particular co who tried to replace all the circuit arrangement with young pioneers, in fact he tried to infest all of circuit with youth.
my father in law was removed by this person from his circuit position and that added to the complete disdain even contempt my fil had for him.
my fil was one of a small group that had formed congregation , built the kh with their own funds and where very loyal to the organisation, never commenting or expressing dissent in any form.
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Richard Oliver
Outlaw. The OP states that he feels that in the example that was given that the CO should not have even brought up selling off that hall because the hall belongs to the congregation and not to the Watchtower. I certainly disagree with that contention but as the OP says it was a strong group of people who attended it and was in no danger of it going down on it's own accord.
So my question has been throughout this whole back and forth is that there are certainly times when a congregation needs to be dissolved and a kingdom hall is no longer needed. Outlaw you are of the contention that if Watchtower ever dissolves a congregation or sells a kingdom hall, that it is a money grab and all that they want is the money. So my question to you is, do you ever think that is not the case? Do you believe that there is ever a time for Watchtower to dissolve a congregation or to sell a kingdom hall for a legitimate reason? I am not saying that this is true, but I do believe it is hard for you to say yes you do believe that there are times for this because you keep on making the statement that the only reason Watchtower ever does it is because they are money hungry and want to be part of the real estate game.